West Kentucky Community and Technical College
Academic Support Program Blog
This blog has been created for students, faculty and staff. Please feel free to give reviews of the Academic Support Program. We want to make sure all individuals have a voice at WKCTC. Please see the Blog Etiquette below if you have any questions about the content of your comment.Thank you for taking the time to give your opinion in the comments section.
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Blog Etiquette
Since the natural process of learning new words is to listen to the new word, to speak it, and then to read and write it or possibly write then read it, we might help students with their challenging textbook readings by devoting some class time to having students hear and say the new words they will encounter prior to their reading a difficult textbook chapter. (Picked up this idea at a division meeting yesterday) Ideas?
I understand what you are saying but I think we can take that approach a step further and integrate "How to read a textbook" into a GE 101 class. Also, this class should be mandatory for all students. This type of class can really help the student understand responsibility, life skills, study skills, and reading/writing.
Possible Strategies
1. Having a cafeteria, again, for students to in.
2. Provide Life Skills help to students. (would be better if these Life Skills were provided in a mandatory class GE 101/102).
3. Help students take ownership for self. Have trainings for staff/faculty over Life and Study Skills.
4. Need to institute a 4-6 weeks Compass Prep Course.
Having a central location in ATB would offer students a location for studying, engaging with others, and opportunity for faculty to mingle and meet on occasion. Several faculty have brought this up. The only place they congregate now is in the lobby.
I believe that students are lacking the life skills - techniques in dealing with the many struggles of work, family, and school. Why can't we institute POD for students. Set up at major down times between classes in the Bistro to have presentation and discussion of what students need help with - time and money management.
Success story - I have been working with a student to get through the compass test - Algebra - today he passed and is now enrolled in the course needed for his program.
Strategy for overcoming remediation - Students seem to feel that if it is not "life" related, then why bother learning it. If we could look at having focus sessions within the transitional and general education course that applied to a life situation such as math for their program, then the students may be able to take the previous concepts that were taught and attach them to the knowledge they need for career success. Team teaching could be beneficial. Program teachers could facilitate those sessions or attend classes as guest lectures to explain the relevance of the topic to a particular carerr.
This team approach could also help with the divide among gen ed and technical, as they would have the opportunity to interact in classes other than their own, see a course in action, and allow discussion between faculty that would not normally take place by their own initiative.
1. Remediate technical students by using pertinent examples (applied methods), rather than vague theory.
Retention suffers otherwise.
2. Don't subject everyone to a mandatory textbook reading class. This is but one more obstacle for all, unneeded by all.
Less remediation would be needed if fundamental outcomes (reading and math, for example)are incorporated into regular classwork related to specific tasks.
People learn better and retain more when proper examples are used.
Again, if the student sees a definite benefit to him/herself, they learn quicker and retain more.
I agree a class should be implemented. If we are going to try and make time in our class for "easier textbook reading" as suggested above then it is no different than having its own class. Except it won't be taking up my time for my class...the time I have for my class is just that - time for my information not time to teach remedial textbook reading.
I am currently looking for students who are interested in creating a non traditional student organization.
Non Trads make up a huge percentage of students and I feel it's important to offer services to these adult students who may face issues that traditional students do not.
cfitzhugh0002@kctcs.edu
The assumption, that every single student who is allowed entry into a class, has a total working knowledge of every single skill required for that entry, is presumptious, unnecessary and harmful.
To require ALL students to take a MANDATORY course in "Textbook Reading", is a continuation of a series of similar actions which, it can be argued, have fueled the retention problem we now face.
Such actions, I believe, keep the student from leaving "home plate" and ever reaching "first base".
They tend to stay where they've been put. Eventually, they stay home.
Adding cost to students, already facing tuition levels which even our administration admits, is so high as to cause problems in enrollment and retention.
The proposed mandatory classes merely make a bad situation worse.
Creating inventive obstacles for students should not be our goal.
I see how you would see creating a mandatory class as a situation. The truth is that there exists alot of colleges that require a mandatory GE 100, 101 or 102. They do this to ensure that their students are ready for classes. I feel that we prepare our students for failure if we do not require them to have a class in GE 100 or 101. I work with many students who have no idea what they want in life or how they should be in their classrooms. Fact is that unless you are going to teach them to read, write, and think about their future during your class then the argument for not having a GE 101 is mute and should occur.
to dmarvin,
The fact of the matter is; every teacher should be doing the very things you seem to imply they aren't.
Students SHOULD BE learning to read, write, and think about(and express) themselves, as these tasks relate to each class in which they participate.
What you are proposing is merely a continuance of the long-used method of handling a large number of students, seen, by some, as ill-suited for college.
This consists of advising these students into "remedial" or "developmental" classes, then using the same methods which didn't allow the students to learn as they could have, in high school, again, and charging them for the experience, again.
The tendency to create levels of "remediation" almost insures that the students never progress at all.
Your proposal, to teach students how to read "a" textbook, does not take into consideration just how many different types of textbooks exist within just this school alone. Each is so different as to require a completely different "remedial" textbook reading class.
The ultimate solution to this in the past was to teach towards a certain group, with certain needs. Other group's needs have been ignored, with predictable results and predictable problems of retention.
There have been many proposals,from many sources, recently, which point out the need for new methods of offering instruction. One of the common themes, contained within all these proposals, is that they ALL state that the sought-after credentials(degree, diploma, certificate) should be attained in the FEWEST POSSIBLE NUMBER OF COURSES.
This exeplifies that someone else has noticed that the tendency to stack courses onto credential requirements, has reached a logical zenith.
KCTCS was formed to help create one statewide system to provide easy transfer between all the colleges.
This will NEVER take place if each college is free to add questionable content to credential requirements. THAT was one of the roots of the problem prior to the formation of KCTCS, and such proposal, as you describe, only continues and complicates it.
In conclusion, your last paragraph states that the argument I just made, is "mute". Spellcheck won't catch that error, but, the word should be "MOOT".
In fact, the argument is neither of those two descriptors.
ybreh.
I like the discussion. It was not my intent to imply that teachers are not teaching their students to think, read, write, or look to the future. I feel that is should not be the job of a college teacher to teach students "remedial" work instead of focusing on their, the teachers, class subjects unless the class subject is to focus on Developmental or Transitional subjects. It is my belief that if we have mandatory courses that focus on Life/Study/Academic Skills early on in the academic careers of all students then they will do better throughout the entire process. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to fit the fewest number of credit hours into a program. This causes the student to go longer and in turn causes them to get upset. With the skills that they can learn in a GE 101 or 102 course they "might", not always, be able to work through their issues. Also, I do realize that students can get the same help from all teachers if the student would listen to the teachers. I do understand that ALL teachers do work extremely hard to assist their students in any way that they can. I feel that a mandatory GE 101 or 102 course "could" take some of the pressure off of the teachers and let them focus more on what they want the student to learn. Thank you for your responses. In my opinion these are the types of discussions that need to be had on this website.
I agree that we need some sort of required work for giving students some of these very necessary skills. Our most common response is to place that instruction in the context of a class.
The point is that students will not do it if it is not for credit and/or required. Now, I am strictly against forcing students to participate in superfluous and pedantic activities simply so that we as faculty and staff at an institution of higher learning can smoke our pipes and speak in snooty accents. But I will repeat myself because I think it is important. Students will not do it if we don't require it.
Right now, most of the students I encounter in a tutoring situation or in the classroom situation have scarce to no study and/or coping skills. So, to say that this sort of class or course of preparation is not needed seems ludicrous to me. I am also having a hard time seeing this as a hurdle. If students can not persist in this course of study, will they persist in the numerous courses which will require these basic skills?
However, I think with some imagination we can find something which will not impede the degree/ certificate/ diploma/ credit-seeking process. One thought I have that I have spoken with Daniel about on several occasions is a highly structured and mandatory orientation. During this orientation we could put in study skills, life skills, test prep, campus resources, and so on. We need not only new ideas, but we need new ways of looking at these old problems. And transitioning students is an INCREASING problem. It is only getting larger, and the fact is that if we don't address the issue, we will be crushed by it.
Mason Tudor
Academic Support Center Coordinator
It's easy to see all sides to this puzzle. The question, where does the responsibility lie is redundant. The high schools that don't prepare students? A mandatory orientation? Each instructor?
As one poster mentioned earlier, this is his/her time to teach his class, not teach a student how to use a text book.
The optional orientation that I attended was a complete waste of my time as a student and as the parent to an incoming freshman. We were entertained by the "O" team on stage, then we trekked across campus to only discover we weren't where we were supposed to be.
As a student, I have no issues in attending a mandatory orientation, as I feel most non traditional students wouldn't. We're there for reasons that differ from other "groups" that attend college.
Yes, we're all there to get an education, but the process for each group is different.
In my observations, the lack of knowledge in how to study in addition to the surprising expectations of each instructor tends to throw incoming freshmen into a state of confused chaos.
I hope to see a mandatory course that is geared towards life skills, study skills, information on the resources available on and off campus, etc.
C Fitzhugh
The comments from the student/parent are very telling.
A mandatory course geared toward life skills, study skills,job interview skills, resume' writing, and usefull economics was a part of the Technical College diploma requirements, until consolidation took place.
It was a great course, from which present students, across the whole campus could benefit.
It could be used for greater benefit than many of the present remedial (developmental) classes.
I wouldn't suggest making it mandatory without removing some other, present, requirement.
I do suggest making it mandatory and to offer it free of charge...there's a thought. Yes I said FREE OF CHARGE. we are to help those in our community and this is one way of not only helping them to read and understand text books(something they should have learned at high school)but how to read and think comprehensively outside of college. A neccessary life skill that all need to have. This is college and to subject all of our courses "down" to help them is actually crippling them and not allowing sufficient time for the actual course and content they paid for.
Good luck on offering "free" classes!
The solution is not "dumbing down" the courses, but actually teaching the courses the students need, when they need them.
The program of study they choose to pursue has requirements for completion.
Many of the courses a student ends up settling for, have NOTHING to do with his program of study.
If we don't offer what is needed,when it's needed, rather than what WE want to teach, when we want to teach it, there will be no real positive change in the future.
What the previous person prescribes is more of the same method that we now practice.
You must ask yourself; IS THIS METHOD WORKING?
We have the worst retention in the whole state(Fall sem. to Fall sem.), and rank extremely low in the nation, I suspect.
The way we treat our entry level students needs some radical adjustment.
Which is why a free course would help them and quite possibly improve retention since they aren't paying for it (given high cost of things now and not to mention a new tuition increase!) Necessary life skills is just that and our job is to educate and help strengthen our community.
As for courses needed for the program of study is an advisor and academic person issue. Academically plan ahead as the advisor so that the student isn't sttling for anything but taking those courses in his/her program and if that means one semester is "off" becasue the course is offered every other semester then help that student plan for that. If we aren't offering courses needed then we need a serious look at our academic scheduling and those that approve current courses.
Retention is a big problem becasue many don't have the necessary study skills - I can't count how many times students have told me "high school didn't prepare me at all for college" and I see them having to take a course or two over and right now, many just can't afford to keep coming back and taking the same class; not when they have bills and families to feed. we need to help them up front and advise them more carefully so that they will know that their money isn't being wasted and that they will return. If they don't learn up front how to truly succeed in college then yes, they will not return and retention willbe horrible.
Again: GOOD LUCK ON OFFERING FREE CLASSES AT THIS CAMPUS!!
No argument about the great idea, but, I just can't see that happening here.
Not when we charge a student to park, get a transcript, take a test which would allow them into college, or a dozen other examples.
Additionally, I agree that "life skills" should be a high priority.
However, the best classes for this were being offered at the Technical College, and they were forced to give them up for the present "requirements" which seem to be unable to provide the same opportunities for improvement so desperately needed.
The reference to the student who states that "high school didn't prepare them for this", is interesting, in that all our students do not arrive here directly from high school. Many are in the process of coming from a job that has been shipped overseas, and, for whom high school is a distant memory, at best.
Simply put, these folks are starting over, and are placed in frustrating situations which drive many away, during the first year.
We must understand that these folks have needs which must be met, and we aren't meeting them. If we were, they wouldn't be leaving in such high numbers.
Frankly, these people aren't so much trying to succeed in "COLLEGE", but in "LIFE", by getting a better job.
Since every single survey I have seen recently, states that MOST JOBS, NOW, AND IN THE NEXT TWENTY YEARS, do not and will not require a college DEGREE, many of these students are merely trying to obtain some SPECIFIC training to allow them to lift themselves up a notch or two.
They do not have the time nor money to spend on classes unspecific to their fundamental goals.
It's true that we could improve the reading skills of every student who enters this college, given enough time, but that is the commodity which they can least afford to spend.
The students who are in career-specific programs, should not be forced to take a single course which isn't specifically designed for that program.
Presently, if they take all the developmental courses that a COMPASS test may imply that they "REQUIRE", their financial aid will run out before they are able to enter the courses which REALLY help them prepare for their chosen career.
The COMPASS test is not a good predictor of the success of students in many courses, but is being used as if it were infallible.
Presently, COMPASS scores PREVENT them from entering many program-related classes.
In many cases, they could be allowed into program-related classes, then the COMPASS scores could be used to show where they need specific tutoring, which could then be offered concurrently with their other classes, rather than prior to them.
Some will argue that this is an impossible idea. But to them I just say; It's been done before, and it works better than the present system of ill-conceived and ill-applied "developmental" classes.
Just look at the results for the last two decades.
That will pretty much settle that argument.
ybreh.
Colleges are about money, not what the student's needs are, not how to address and reach those needs.
Until these institutions realize that it's the students whose needs should and must be met no issues will be resolved.
Well Said!!!
An arguable obstacle for all students, is the fact that the blog asking if anyone had input into the operation of the school only lasted about 24 hours. It has been removed, along with some very pertinent comments.
I'd like to see that blog!
Me too!
In all honesty, I feel that post secondary education is an OPTION to attend. If one chooses to pursue education at the post secondary level then they need to know the "chalenges" that they may face and the "difficulty" level that is set and what comes with post secondary ed.
Many times people enter this type of education thinking it is "nothing" to get through or do or with the mind-set of "well it can't be that hard" when in reality it is because you have moved past your basic reading and writing and math in high school(or should have) - your basics for education. And to enter into education beyond is at a higher level and therefore will be harder and more difficult and often times more complex - IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE!!! This is why it is an option, you do not have to attend, yes numbers keep me in a job and i love my job but let's be realistic. If you need it to better yourself ecnomically then you need to be serious about the responsibilities that come with this type of education and also realize that it may take you longer to attain this degree, etc... than "normal" especially if you work, have children, or a "life" outside of school.
You are to be learning information and hopefully "new and emerging" information about the career (diploma, degree or certificate)you may be pursuing. And with learning or mastering a new skill, trade, or "job" comes new and often more complex knowledge so that you (the student) will be WELL TRAINDED and KNOWLEDGABLE about your field/job.
We as educators should inform them up front! Even if they may have a "remedial" issue or not. It is our job to inform a dn educate, not to "dumby" classes, add more to them, or remove courses just so that their degree requirements are less and basically "easier" for them - that (the later Imention) does them no service out in the "real world" of their new job - not actually as "qualified/kowledgable" as they should be becasue we cut a few classes off simply get them through faster and with less onthe plate.
Unfortunately, "cutting content" is exactly what happened after consolidation of the Community with the Technical colleges.
It is a sad fact that many vocational programs have been forced to cut sizable percentages of their curriculum to meet the requests of various administrators.
Noone wants to admit it, and everyone denies it, but that doesn't change the fact that it took place, and the programs and students have suffered.
Someone above stated that we need a cafeteria at the Anderson Building. Another has stated, recently, that it would be a great idea to have someone like Chick-Fil-A to operate a concession, similar to the Subway concession presently offered in the Student Union Building. Both these people are right, but they may not know that we have already had both arrangements, including Chick-Fil-A, at the Anderson Building.
The cafeteria was removed to make way for the Bistro, which was, for some time after it was finished, locked, to prevent students from entering, and had the lighting diminished to such an extent that some have difficulty seeing well on cloudy days and at night. Additionally, the new lighting is not as energy-efficient as the fluorescents were.
Chick-Fil-A came to the Anderson Building expecting to operate from the snack bar, which was fully equipped with commercial equipment.
When they arrived, they found that the snack bar had been completely gutted, and all the equipment had been scrapped for a tiny fraction of it's value.
They ended up having to cook all their food at the Mall,in the morning before they arrived on campus, and sell the warmed over sandwiches out of styrofoam coolers, from tables in the back hall. The sandwiches were sometimes several hours old before they were sold.
They were not happy with the arrangement when they left.
There is something decidedly unbalanced in a situation where students on one side of the campus have a food concession, lounge area, television, and recreation area, while the other side has had those amenities removed, with no visible efforts being made to restore them.
Some argue that the lobby is capable of use as a study area, but anyone who pays attention will see otherwise.
Most students, faculty and staff, work on homework or other assignments,using the tables or booths in the Student Union building.
Neither of these are present in the lobby of the Anderson building.
ybreh.
If you will notice, there have only been three blogs since the blog asking if anyone had input into the operation of the college, and it's replies, were removed.
This could imply that some have given up trying.
If that is true, it is sad indeed.
ybreh.
KCTCS NEWS recently reported research by Madisonville Community College has shown that the longer a student spends in remedial or developmental courses, the less likely they are to receive a degree. Specifically noted as another negative impact of such courses was the fact that the students ended up using too much of their financial aid on these courses.
They have offered to allow a limited number of students the opportunity to attend the required developmental classes, FOR FREE!!!
The number of students involved is about 30-35, and they are considered to be the ones with the most severe deficiencies.
This is, of course, a positive step, and more than is being done for students on this campus, but closer consideration may show an even better way to reach even more students being set up for early drop-out.
If a positive move was to be made here, I would suggest that a far larger group of students could be benefited by using the COMPASS(or other)test scores to show specific areas in which the student needs minor remediation, and allow tutoring to build the those student's compass scores to the point that they arent't required to take the developmental classes AT ALL. This would save the student the semester (or two, or three!!)required in attending courses which not only cost them valuable financial aid, but, in fact, do not prepare them for the credited courses required for their programs. Additionally, these developmental courses are the same ones which are being recommended(I believe, unnecessarily in MANY cases), because of marginally low COMPASS scores .
A student who fails to attain an arbitrary score, by only a small margin, should NOT be required to waste his/her time(and money) on semester length courses, when a few hours of remediation(or less) would suffice.
If we really wish to impact retention, THIS IS THE PLACE TO START.
Using the time-worn excuse, that we are "setting them up to fail" by allowing them into the credited classes, just doesn't ring true. The developmental classes are failing them anyway, without giving them a chance to succeed in a credited course, during a reasonable time, before their financial aid is consumed.
Offering the present developmental courses, in the manner we do, has PROVEN to be the wrong method.
It's time to "get over it" and try something better.
ybreh.